Newspeakがメジャーデビューアルバム『Newspeak』をリリースした。Rei（Vo）、Yohey（Ba）、Steven（Dr）、そしてサポートギタリストのTake（Attractions）も含めた、それぞれのプレイヤーとしてのシグネチャーが炸裂。それによって、インディーロックやオルタナティブロックをルーツの軸とし、ドラマチックで疾走感のある曲や、ファンキーなダンスミュージック、メロディアスなバラードなどさまざまなタイプの曲を打ち出す持ち前のスタイルが、より強くポップに躍動するセルフタイトルに相応しい作品となった。いったい彼らはどのようにして圧倒的な“らしさ”を獲得したのか。その経緯に迫る。

──Newspeakは2022年11月にシングル「Leviathan」で〈Waner Music Japan〉からメジャーデビューを果たし、ついにアルバム『Newspeak』を完成させました。まずはなぜメジャーを選択したのか、その経緯と理由から教えてもらえますか？

Yohey：活動を始めた頃はちょうどSpotifyやApple Musicといったサブスクが日本でもどんどん広まっていった時期で、僕らはTuneCoreJapanというディストリビューションサービスを使ってリリースを続けていました。

その流れのなかで、自分たちの音楽をもうちょっと広いフィールドに向けて発信したいという想いが芽生えたころに、メジャーレーベルからいくつか話をもらってたんです。でも、コロナ禍の状況が深刻化してきたことで、すべてがいったん白紙になったんですよ。その時は未曽有の事態で誰もがどうしていいのかわからなくなったけど、リリースはできるなら続けていこうということで完成したのが、2021年のアルバム『Turn』でした。

Rei：僕らのサウンドって、カテゴライズするとインディーとかオルタナティブということになると思うんですけど、Yoheyも言ったように、そのスタイルをもっと広い場所に投げかけたらどうなるか、ということに興味が湧いてきたんです。そこまではよかったんですけど……。

──まさかのパンデミックが。

Rei：『Turn』を作ってツアーを回っていた頃もめちゃくちゃ最高で、でもまだまだ先が読めない状況だったから、メジャーとかインディーとかそういう話ではなく、そもそも音楽を続けライブをやっていくことそのものに不安があった。そんなツアーの東京公演に来てくれたWarnerの担当の方が一言目に「Newspeakって海外に出たいでしょ？　また会おう！」って声を掛けてくださって。

──シンプル！

Rei：そのシンプルな一言に引き付けられました。

Yohey：その方にはちゃんとバックグラウンドがあって、もともとは洋楽畑で仕事をされていたんです。日本のバンドを海外に紹介した実績もある方で、その後にいろいろと話をする機会をいただいて契約に至りました。

──メジャーレーベルの下でレコーディングを行ったことで、何か変化はありましたか？

Rei：制作にあたって、音楽性についてレーベルからは一切何も言われなくて。制作過程の中で相談に乗ってくれる、いったん完成したものに対してフィードバックをくれる、といった感じだったんです。それがハマったんですよね。

Steven：Warnerのスタッフやエンジニアのニラジ・ガジャンチ、サポートギタリストのTake（Attractions）も含め、客観的な意見が入ってきたことはほんとうによかったと思う。

Rei：新体制での最初の取り組みがシングル「Leviathan」をリリースすることだったんですけど、この曲はHondaの「FIT e:HEV 」のCMソングで、これまでにやったことのなかった“15秒で伝わる強いサビ”を意識しました。その時、僕らメンバー3人は「ちょっとやりすぎなんじゃないか」って言ってたんですよね。でもスタッフの反応はそうでもなくて、これまでのNewspeakのイメージの延長線上で「いいね！」と言ってくれて。

──私もそう思います。特に「メジャーにいったからサビの強いわかりやすい曲を作った」という印象はなく、むしろNewspeakらしいインディーロックルーツのビッグな曲だと思いました。

Rei：まさに、一歩外に出たときの周囲の反応もおっしゃったような感じが多かったんです。でも、少数精鋭で作っていると意外と自分たちのことってわからないというか、変にメジャーとかインディーということを意識していたのは、自分たちだけだったんじゃないかって。そこからよりナチュラルな思考になったうえで、「Be Nothing」の最後のサビとか、「White Lies」のような、今まで以上にポップで強くて大きな曲ができたんです。

Yohey：「Silver Sonic」もそうだったよね。ベースとドラムについては、そういう強度とは別の音楽的なこだわりで、サングラスをかけたまま淡々といきたいみたいなテンションの僕と、激しくエモーショナルにいきたいStevenの間を取ったんですけど、サビのメロディに関しては当時のReiからするとトゥーマッチだと感じていたほうを選んだんです。

Rei：もともとあったサビのメロディの温度が高すぎると思って、ちょっと抑えたバージョンに変えてレコーディングしたら、スタッフの一人が「前の方がよかった気が」ってボソッと言ったことに対して、「そんな気がする」みたいな波紋が全体に広がっていって、僕だけが「え、そうだったの？」って。で、元に戻してみたら結果、僕もそのほうが納得できたっていう（笑）。自分だけではわからなかったNewspeakの美味しいところが見えてきたんですよね。

Yohey：だからこそ、そういう美味しさとは別軸で続けてきた、グルーヴ重視のダンサブルな側面への愛着もより実感できるようになって、「Alcatraz」はNewspeakのコアな部分として、絶対に先行シングルとして出したいと強くプッシュしました。

──エンジニアのニラジ・ガジャンチさんとの仕事はどうでしたか？

Yohey：誰かいい人がいないか探していたらニラジさんの名前が挙がって、調べてみたら「The Killersの2ndアルバム『Sam‘s Town』を手掛けた人が日本にいるぞ」って。

──『Sam‘s Town』は00年代最高のロックアルバムの一つだと思いますし、Newspeakのイメージにもはまるかと。

Yohey：ニラジさんは僕らのサウンドのリファレンスになるような作品や、それらの作品とプロデューサー／エンジニアとの関りを、事前にじっくりと時間をかけてインプットしてきてくれたので、ロジカルかつ熱のこもったレコーディングできたと思います。Stevenが英語でスムーズにコミュニケーションが取れることも大きかったですね。

──ギタリストのTakeさんとのレコーディングはどんな感触でしたか？

Steven：Takeは最高。ほんとうにいいヤツでギターが上手い。考えすぎない性格だから、バンドに落ち着きといいエネルギーを与えてくれる。間違いないね。

Yohey：Takeは確かな腕があるうえで、サポートと正式メンバーという立場を超えて、Newspeakの作品にギタリストの目線を吹き込んでくれました。そこは本当に大きかったなと。

──イントロダクションとしての「What If You Weren’t Afraid」があって「White Lies」でいきなり泣きのギターが炸裂するところから始まり、今回はギターがかなり効いた作品になっていますよね。

Rei：すごくロックバンドっぽくなったんじゃないかと思います。

──そして、Stevenのパワードラムやタム使い、Yoheyさんの「Alcatraz」のような曲をリードするフレーズやグルーヴは、シンプルなパターンとのコントラストでより際立ち、Reiさんのフロントマンとしての生き様もより躍動しています。みなさんのプレイヤーとしてのシグネチャーが今まで以上に鮮明に伝わってくる、セルフタイトルらしいアルバムだと思うのですが、そういう感触はありますか？

Rei：特にNewspeakらしさを突き詰めて一致団結したみたいなことはなくて、むしろ音楽的な話をあまりしなくなったんですよね。話したところでそもそも音楽の趣味が違うし、折衷案を探ることが増えるだけだから、その必要もないのかなって。そこがポイントになっているのかもしれないです。「こんな曲にしたいから同じ方向を向いてこうしよう」ではなく、「どうせみんな頑固なんだし、お互いのシナジーを大切にしよう」というベクトルで曲を作りレコーディングしたことで、おのずとお互いが期待している通りかその上をいくプレイがいくつも出てきたんだと思います。

Steven：ゴールが見えているよりも、「なんとかなるさ」っていうアプローチの方が楽しいしね。

──“らしさ”って難しいじゃないですか。視野狭窄になることもありますし、そこに気が付いてもなかなか修正できない。自分らしく輝いていたと思っていたことが実はそうでもなかったと後々思うことも往々にしてある。歌詞とサウンドが相まって、そういうモヤモヤに寄り添い引っ張ってくれる作品だと思いました。

Rei：確かに、歌詞について言えば、自分らしさと向き合う、自分らしさを保つ、みたいな感覚は結構あったかも。メジャーからの作品という外向きな打ち出しに反して内向きというか、「これはオレと友達の話です」、「これはオレが好きな人のことを想った歌です」みたいなパーソナルな感覚が強かったことは確かで、そういう感情が外に向いた表現に昇華されているという言い方が正しい気がします。だから、そう思ってもらえたことは嬉しいですね。

Yohey：『Turn』はこの先まともにライブができるかもわからないコロナ禍に、自分たちができることを示すというマインドが起点になっていて、そういう意味ではコンセプトがあった。でも今回はそうではなくて、客観的な視点も入ったうえで見えてきた「これが今のNewspeakです」というアルバムだと思います。

──そして『Turn』と異なり、思いっきりライブができるということがわかったうえで作ったアルバムでもある。

Steven：それもあってドラムはシンプルなパターンを軸にしています。難しいとライブで疲れるから（笑）。お客さんもメンバーも、オレが楽しそうに叩いている方がいいと思うし。難しいのが楽しくないわけじゃないけどね。

──ドラムと向き合っているStevenもカッコいいけど、マイクも使って「今楽しい！」ってフロアに向かって発散しているときは最高ですよね。

Yohey：7月19日にはリリースパーティも開催しますし、どんなライブになるか、楽しみにしていてください。

由tricot、Genie High（ジェニーハイ）的主唱中嶋Ikkyu以及歷來支援了團團轉樂團（くるり）、BOOM BOOM SATELLITES、銀杏BOYZ等多數樂團的吉他手山本幹宗兩人組成的音樂企劃「好芻」發行了睽違1年半的迷你專輯《Mitaiken》。前作《Gakkari.》中處處可見的東方元素、有如闖入異世界般的印象在本作中也不變，也能感受到這張作品受到1990年代搖滾樂和電子樂變遷的影響。另外山本也初次挑戰混音。這次我們向他們請教了這張他們傾注心力的作品。

▼相關文章 Interview｜New project by Ikkyu Nakajima and Kanji Yamamoto = Comfortable chemical reactions of SUSU

ーー距離上次2022年秋天的Qetic訪談已經過了約1年半了。請先告訴我們在新冠疫情後半期間是如何創作《Mitaiken》這一張作品的。

山本幹宗（下略山本）：進入新冠疫情風暴後整個世界的情勢一瞬間巨變。疫情緩解期間的生活就像是前進三步又後退兩步一樣。這段期間生活慢慢回到以往的樣子，印象中當時隨著表演增加有漸漸變忙的感覺。

中嶋Ikkyu（下略中嶋）：《Mitaiken》是在有其他一般工作的期間製作的，所以真的很忙。當時忙到腦中都冒出了「衝動購物」和「大遲到」這種詞語，所以都是一邊聽一邊拚命用手機打歌詞。

山本：因為彼此都很忙，所以基本上都是遠端傳檔案和討論來製作的。那段期間一次面都沒見，一直到要拍MV才終於見到對方。見了面也幾乎都沒說些像是在討論的事情，頂多都是稍微閒聊。

中嶋：幹宗傳來的音源都像是素描一樣，每首我都只是想著要一邊享受這首歌一邊錄來上色這個作品。但我也沒有特別對他說像是「這一段這樣很棒耶！」之類的話。旁人看來可能會覺得好像我很冷淡，但我想這是因為我打從心裡覺得幹宗的歌很棒所以才會這樣。

山本：這一點倒是我們都一樣。Ikkyu填的曲都好到理所當然，會讓人忘記稱讚。基本上作曲時我們都不太說「再那樣一點、再這樣一點」，講的酷一點就是「用音樂在對話」的狀態。

ーー充滿東方氣息的氛圍和Ikkyu歌聲的詮釋共通貫穿了《Gakkari.》和《Mitaiken》兩張作品。

中嶋：我從以前就很喜歡亞洲的時尚、音階、食物和流行文化。當時聽了幹宗很有東方氛圍的歌時就覺得我們應該會很合。把東方的味道都鑲進旋律和歌詞後，MV的風格也就自然往這個方向來了。

ーー『Mitaiken』中收錄的歌曲大概是從什麼時候開始製作的呢？

中嶋：2021年的夏天寫完〈Delivery〉後，下一首是〈mitaiken（原名：未体験）〉。〈Delay（原名：大遅刻）〉、〈Any more（原名：衝動買い）〉和〈Cacao（原名：カカオ）〉3首是2023年3月表演時發現歌的數量不夠後一口氣寫完的。

山本：〈Delay〉和〈Any more〉兩首歌曲反映了當時的自己作曲形式呢。由於前一張作品的氣氛算是比較放鬆，所以打算做比較歡快的歌就寫了兩首。然後又覺得嗨歌好像夠了，所以就寫了〈Cacao〉。

ーー上一張作品《Gakkari.》在發行之前，原定的收錄歌曲裡有這張作品的歌曲呢。

山本：在決定《Gakkari.》的收錄曲時我選了〈Delivery〉，但Ikkyu推了〈Gakkari〉。Ikkyu在樂團裡的地位比我還高所以就變這樣了（笑）。

ーー（笑）。〈Delivery〉不論是樂器的聲響、氛圍乃至歌詞的用字遣詞，感覺都和1990年代的U2有共通之處。

山本：〈Delivery〉沒有明確的去參考什麼作品，只是用稀薄的第六感把對我來說不是真正的、從別人那聽來的那種「酷酷的」感覺拿來用而已。不過我是很喜歡U2，包括像是《Zooropa》（1993）、《Pop》（1997）那時期的作品。就連以前會自動被下載到iPod裡面，大家覺得「有點煩欸…」的歌我也喜歡。

中嶋：從幹宗那邊拿到這首歌第一次聽的時候，很不可思議的腦中浮現了像是科幻作品的情景，所以比起寫現在、這個瞬間的歌，我選擇把這首歌的時代感搞得亂七八糟。

山本：第一次聽Ikkyu唱時，我把「想要將好運帶給你（強運をデリバリーしたい）」聽成「今天也想叫外送（今日もデリバリーしたい）」，我還想說是不是製作期間懶得做晚餐所以連續叫UberEats。結果後來去錄音時第一次拿到印出來的歌詞，一讀才發現歌詞很棒。我就和Ikkyu說：「原來是這麼棒的歌嗎！？你是天才吧！」

ーー相對來說〈mitaiken〉則是自省的氛圍。

山本：不同於集中第六感來製作的〈Delivery〉，〈mitaiken〉是我為了獲得靈感，收集了許多key、速度、風格相似的取樣後循環那些片段來玩著做的。就在我覺得還差臨門一腳的時候Ikkyu就幫這首歌寫了很棒的曲。

中嶋：比起〈Delivery〉那種往來各個時代的浮游感，〈mitaiken〉的浮游感更像是浮在空中一樣，有種小孩在胡思亂想、飛向妄想的世界的印象。

山本：為了加強這個世界觀，我覺得做成像是《Screamadelica》（1991）時期的Primal Scream或當時的Andrew Weatherall的風格的話應該會很不錯，就試著加入了管樂和木吉他。然後因為好芻的歌原本全都是貝斯合成器，我就試著換成真的貝斯。

ーー山本先生這次也初次挑戰了包含〈mitaiken〉在內3首歌曲的混音。

山本：我在團團轉樂團的製作現場時認識一位非常厲害的工程師宮崎洋一先生。本來前後受了他照顧大概10年左右，我參與的作品大概有一半都是由宮崎先生混音的……。但突然就想自己試試看。從去年冬天開始收集器材，把自己逼到沒辦法回頭的狀況後就第一次挑戰混音了。

ーー兩位都各自在自己的領域做各種嘗試，讓我感受到這是一張在相互信賴的基礎上製作的作品。

中嶋：雖然也不是說術業有專攻，不過樂曲上由幹宗主導，並由他做出來的音源我比較喜歡。然後由我在不知道參考了什麼歌曲的情況下加上我的風格的旋律的話，那這首歌自然就會成為這個世界上還不存在的歌曲。我是這麼想的。

山本：比起說是配合步調、一起往同樣的方向性來製作，比較像是我們覺得蹦出來的東西很有趣。Ikkyu想的曲子絕對和我想像的完全不一樣但一定都很棒，這點很有趣。一句話來說就是很lucky。

中嶋：難得和別人一起製作，比起做出和預料之中的東西，更希望他和我都做出讓對方覺得「來這招嗎！」的東西。錯開步調比較有趣。

ーー本作有哪個部分特別希望大家注目的嗎？

中嶋：我個人在寫歌詞的時候，有像是「沒看過這些詞語擺在一起耶」、「沒聽過從這句歌詞開始的歌」之類的新發現，希望大家可以特別注意看看。

山本：只要不要1.5倍加速之類的話，大家願意聽我們的歌的話就夠了（笑）。這張作品的變化很豐富，收錄了各種歌曲而且整體風格統一的很好。果然Ikkyu的歌詞和歌聲很棒。作品中有很多訴說「要是被喜歡的人這麼想的話就糟了！」這種感覺的句子，如果這能成為大家的動力的話就太好了。

ーー最後請告訴我們好芻今後的展望。聽說你們的歌曲也已經在海外上線。

中嶋：我認為可以靈活的活動是最大的武器，所以想要以臨機應變的方式繼續樂團的活動。我自己也有個人的音樂活動，但我不是一個人能做全部的類型，所以需要非常多協助我的人。因此只有我和幹宗兩個人的好芻算是最極簡的企劃了。

山本：能讓許多人聽、並且說喜歡我們的歌的話就太好了。

ーーIkkyu小姐在tricot的巡迴演唱會也常常到海外表演，也有和中國的GriffO（鬼否）、台灣的大象體操一起表演過，和亞洲圈藝人的互動也不少呢。

中嶋：一起表演過的亞洲圈藝人們都很開朗而且很好聊，但音樂上都充滿技巧而且感覺大家對自己非常嚴格。

山本：我頂多10年多前有到韓國旅行過而已。不過前幾天有在阿佐谷的酒攤和來日本的韓國創作歌手還有他的團員一起喝酒，當時真的很嗨呢。

中嶋：就算是要去海外，只有我們兩個人的話到哪都可以表演，做我們自己想做的或回應他人的邀約都很容易。

山本：唱歌的人可能覺得很棒，但唱歌以外的事情都會變成我要做，所以可以的話希望可以有樂團團員跟著（笑）。

──Please tell us about the "Bergmál" mask that Björk wore during the first week of Coachella.

James　Yes, the inspiration for this particular mask was to make something that would radiate outwards from the head, like a soundwave frozen in air. I spend a lot of time sculpting these pieces in 3D software - playing with particular forms and shapes until they produce something I find interesting. So it is often a mixture of accident and intention.

For the Bergmál headpiece I was exploring spirals and trying to produce a shape with one continuous edge that would rotate around its own axis, folding back in on itself many times. Once I had created that form I realised that it looked like a soundwave, so I pushed it further in that direction knowing that it could fit well into Björk´s sonic world.

────I feel that the word "Bergmál", which is also the title of this mask, reflects some kind of unique Icelandic values. What do you think about the word "Bergmal" and its values? Do you ever experience those values while living in Reykjavik?

James　Bergmál has always been one of my favourite words in Icelandic. It literally translates to “mountain language” - because of the way an echo bounces down a valley, as if the mountains are speaking to each other. I love that image evoked by the word. I have lived in Iceland for almost 10 years now, but the culture still reveals itself to me bit by bit - through the language as I learn it, the books I read and the music I listen to.

──Next, I would like to ask about the "Ossein" mask that Björk wore during the second week of Coachella.

James　The form of the Ossein mask was a product of many experiments in the 3D sculpting phase, and turned out to be one of the most complex things I have sculpted. I was amazed that it was even printable. My intention with the references and inspirations was more concerning the texture - I really wanted it to look like cartilage or fishbones, something with a very organic translucency to it.

──I see, so the distinction wasn’t made intentionally. The characteristics of this mask are clearly evident from the source of its inspiration, but I think one of its characteristics is that it turns blue when exposed to a certain type of ultraviolet light, in order to reproduce the glow of living organisms underwater.

James　I had originally planned for these masks to include some LED lights, moving around and flashing inside them like an underwater sea creature. However, early on in the sculpt I realised that this was going to be difficult to achieve without sacrificing a lot of the design elements, so I decided to use UV light instead. I had used UV threads a lot in some of my first early embroidered pieces, which glowed under certain stage lights - so it was an aspect I was keen to revisit in the 3D printed iterations. I´m very happy we ended up going in this direction, as this gave the mask a more organic and bioluminescent feeling (wheres LED might have become too “disco”!)

──These two masks were created with the secca team. How did you feel when you actually held the mask that they had created?

James　I was totally overwhelmed! Their meticulous craftsmanship and alchemical ability to make some beautiful textures really brought the pieces to life in a way I could never have expected. I travelled to Kanazawa to visit them and it was such a great experience - getting to know them personally and professionally was a lot of fun, and I am so proud of what we made together.

──This time, you used 3D printing to carve these two masks. What is your thought behind incorporating these new technologies into your design project with Björk?

James　Since I started making masks, I have always moved between different mediums almost unintentionally just as a result of wanting to evolve my designs. At first they were all embroidered, then I started to use wire and beadwork, then silicone sculpting, and then into metalwork and silversmithing. 3D printing was a very natural extension of that journey, particularly as I had also started to 3D sculpt and programme my masks as AR filters.

I really enjoy switching between the physical and digital worlds when I work now - and I find that the two disciplines can accompany and enhance each other, rather than compete. The last few masks i have made have come out of a back and forth between the two, designing by hand in quite a traditional silversmith practice and then putting that into 3D sculpting software and manipulating it there, and then back again into the physical world. 

──Generative AI is currently gaining popularity around the world, but many people question its existence. As technology develops. What do you think about the future where technology coexists with art?

James I think we have lived with AI for a while now, as an integrated function of all sorts of softwares and technologies that we didn't necessarily call AI until recently. But rather than perceive it as a threat, I take it more like a challenge - if your concepts or aesthetics can be so easily replicated by an algorithm, then I would rather use that as an impetus to keep evolving and think of something new that the machine can't do.

99.99% of the AI art that I have seen is quite homogenised, unless someone is doing something clever with it or incorporating it their existing practice rather than just relying on it entirely. As with any other tool or technology I am most interested when an artist finds their own idiosyncratic way to use it and lean into the glitches, making the nature of the medium part of the artwork but bending it towards their own world.

──When you started the production of the masks did you start with the design presented by James?

Sugano　James is responsible for the overall art direction of the project and the design of the masks. James presented us with a concrete design that was digitally sculpted using 3D data, and we were responsible for how to make it a physical 3D print with the quality that Björk and James wanted. I was involved as a technical director, and the secca team was in charge of production, and they demonstrated their craftsmanship to the fullest. We follow a process where we make adjustments to areas that need to be carefully adjusted during implementation, such as the strength of the live performance, without damaging the original design, then print them out and refine them.

──Did you have a concept for each mask already decided when you received the 3D data from James?

Sugano　If anything, we had a specific design image from the beginning, and we started by figuring out how to make it a reality. James was the one who directly discussed the concept with Björk, but I was able to fully understand the important parts of the concept from James' design. It doesn't look like a digital design at all, it feels very organic. The design is inspired by things that are close to living things, or rather things that are natural. Based on my experience with previous projects with Björk, I knew from the beginning that even though this design was implemented using the latest technology, I had to make it look extremely organic and not give the impression that it was implemented using the latest technology. I think we started off by properly aligning our understanding with the secca team.

Uemachi　What really deepened our understanding was when James came all the way to Kanazawa, where we are based. By talking to him in person, face-to face, we felt like we were able to figure out what quality we should improve on and what we should propose. Just like his attitude toward this project, he was very polite and careful about how he treated us. During our exchanges, I learned that the beauty of Iceland's natural beauty that he sensitively observes on a daily basis is a source of inspiration for him, and that the beauty in nature is an expression of himself. I could feel that he was trying to embody that through his costume. It feels like part of your skin rather than something you wear. That's the kind of costume James and Björk were looking for.

──Were you able to print the prototype with a 3D printer when James came to Kanazawa?

Uemachi　Yes we were. By the time James came to Kanazawa, the secca team had had detailed discussions, adjusted the data, and printed out samples. While analyzing the rough data we received in advance, we realized that there were many parts that were physically difficult to reproduce. It was only 0.3mm thick, and there were parts where I thought it would break if I moved it around during a live performance. We also create works using 3D modeling on a daily basis, but when we look at the parts that we thought were beautiful on screen, when we hold them in the actual space, we find that they are far from what we imagined, and there is a gap between them. It is a series of tasks such as filling in the information, printing it out, and checking it again. When James came to Kanazawa, he was able to see the test printed samples and was able to give his opinions directly. We were able to share a concrete image of how we wanted the product to look and fine-tune it, allowing us to make solid adjustments. For example, we said things like, “If we want to make it look that way, let's keep it thick here and make it thicker in other areas”, and we worked out what areas we couldn't compromise on and where we could compromise.

────Sugano-san wrote on Instagram, “the 3D data sent by James was beautiful in every way, and secca was just amazing!’.

Sugano　As Uemachi-san mentioned, when we looked at the data, we felt that it would be difficult to achieve the strength of the masks due to the relationship with the material and shape. There were some parts that needed some work to make sure they would be fixed. This is because both masks were designed by calculating backwards from an ideal picture surface, so it was assumed that if things remained as they were, it would be physically difficult to put the masks on the face in the first place. Despite this, the secca team has taken the initial inspiration and implemented it in a way that enhances it without compromising its design at all. I felt that secca's ingenuity was wonderful in that respect.

In addition, this mask cannot be completed simply by printing it out with a 3D printer; it requires a considerable amount of manual labor by craftsmen in order to achieve the ideal appearance, including texture and transparency. It is not something that can be learned in a few days. It is difficult, even for experienced engineers, to realize the designs and concepts conceived by world-class creatives such as Björk and James without sacrificing any of them. In other words, both digital engineering skills and artisanal manual skills are required. In addition to having experience and an understanding of the work, you also need the ability to not give up to the limit, which is a psychological thing. The secca team was perfect in all aspects, so we owe Uemachi-san and his team a huge thank you that we were able to make it happen this time.

────Uemachi-san previously said that when secca produces crafts, it strives to achieve an expression of art and functionality as a product used in everyday life. I thought this story might have some similarities to that.

Uemachi　That may be the ultimate thing. For example, when it comes to tableware for everyday use that is mass-produced, the people who use it and the situations in which it is used are diverse, so in order to satisfy each person who picks it up, it may be necessary to reduce it to an average design to meet the diverse needs of each person who uses it. This time, I made it just for Björk, so I focused on how she could concentrate on her performance at her best, and I was most conscious of making sure the mask didn't create noise. If the mask itself were to break, or come off during the performance, something would be ruined, including the time and value of the experience for those attending the concert. That's what I was most afraid of, because it will effect matters even after the show.

──So, Sugano-san, when you first became involved with Björk in the music video for "Mouth Mantora" in 2015, is there anything that stands out to you through that experience?

Sugano　First of all, the most important thing is being very careful and taking the time and effort to make creative decisions. The music video for "Mouth Mantra", which I helped out with, was a very difficult idea to visualize the inside of the mouth. The live video for "Quicksand" that I also helped out at exhibition which was held in Tokyo was streamed in real time using a live camera, but after that, we had to carefully consider and have a lot of creative interactions before releasing the archived work. I remember there were lots of creatives discussions about it.

Another thing that struck me was when I asked Björk about the relationship between art and technology during our conversation was that, she told me that she really likes incorporating new technology, and she gave examples of traditional instruments that have become commonplace in modern times, such as the piano and violin. She says, “when the piano and violin were created, they were the latest technology”. As for the piano, the technology itself was treated as the subject matter of a song. However, in modern times, the use of the piano is rarely the main theme of music. At first, the use of technology may be touted and become a theme, but before you know it, the technology will disappear and only the music and the emotions it brings will remain. She says, “When it comes to expressing emotions, playing the violin in a certain way allows you to express your emotions. Performance methods and expressions have been cultivated over a long period of history. In other words, the violin is like an old computer. What artists have to do is express themselves by using the tools that we take for granted, which are unique to the era in which we live. I think it's an artist's job to put their heart into technology.” Those words really impressed me and stuck with me.

Sugano　Björk's attitude toward technology is the same when it comes to creations that use cutting-edge technologies such as 3D printing, which is the specialty of the secca team. One of the reasons we invited secca to join our team was because, even though they are skilled at creating things using the latest technology, they do not emphasize that as the main aspect for the final product. It is obvious that there is new technology behind the scenes when you understand the process by which the design was created, but the intervention of technology never comes before the design. I thought that this really matched the feeling I had gained through my communication with Björk.

──That sounds like a very important and interesting topic. When we previously interviewed Uemachi-san, you said that using technology is not the purpose for expression, but rather, technology is primarily a tool for realizing expressions.

Uemachi　Yes. We are also conscious of the exact same thing, whether it moves our hearts or not. I think this is the most important point that creates value. Therefore, I view things in this order: experience is necessary to move the mind, and things exist as interfaces for that experience. We learn from what people in the past have done and make use of it, but if we just do the same things as people in the past, we won't create much value. The times are changing, and the sensibilities of the recipients are also changing, so if we pursue new experiences, experiences that fit the present, and experiences that we want to deliver only to that person, we will inevitably find ways that people in the past could not choose. There are often hints. For example, if 3D printing existed in the Edo period, I think it would definitely be used by craftsmen and artists. If there are tools in front of us that people in the past couldn't choose, and if there's a destination beyond that that people in the past couldn't reach, we should actively try them out. We are working with this attitude.

What impressed me when I worked with James this time was that even though we each have different identities and values, we can connect non-verbally through creation. It was difficult for me to communicate verbally because I can’t speak English well, but I think we were really in sync with each other in terms of what we think is beautiful and what moves us. This may have been a big realization that I gained behind the scenes of this activity.

Sugano　I am the creative director of the entire project for over 90% of the work I am involved with, and secca is of course in the same position, and they usually work on their own signed ideas and creations. Secca is by no means a company that only handles technical direction and 3D printing. This time we were not the ones leading the project; Björk is the creative director and James is the artist and designer. What Uemachi's realized is something that was possible because someone else was leading the project rather than himself. The question was - how can we support the creations of a rare artist like Björk and make them realize what they want to do? Although the thinking process is different than usual, we take what Björk and James want to do very seriously, and want to understand their vision, and then help them implement it. It was new and a lot of fun. The vision we all had in common this time was what kind of emotion we wanted to convey to the audience through our creations. The secca team that I know are good at expressing this, and I think they have world-class talent when it comes to achieving this. I wanted many people to know this fact.

It's extremely rare that a project by a world-class artist like this involves a domestic craftsmen like secca who are well versed in traditional Japanese techniques that have been passed down for a long time and are able to handle cutting-edge technology. I hope that by conveying the greatness of secca's participation in a world-class project with a different approach from their usual main work, they will be able to shine a light on it from a different angle than usual. If people understand what kind of valuable work they do, their recognition will expand. I'm sure more and more people will become interested in their products and work, and I sincerely hope for that.